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Karma

justwannabe2010-07-04 15:26:37 +0000 #1
I was reading a book and it described Karma in very simplistic terms.

when a thought comes up usually this thought is based on a past experience, a memory of something, some call this samskars I think

Situation

YOu are going to work and you have a boss you have had issues with, it is monday morning and you feel anxiety because you feel this person is very controlling and that irratates you. The thought comes up "I cannot stand how controllling he is" so there are three ways to deel with this thought

one is to think, "I cant stand how controlling he is, he always gets on my nerves, why does he have to be so controlling, is it because of how he was reaised, and he is gonna ask for my report before I even get to my dest, I hate when he does that, cant I at least have a few minutes in my office before he bothers me........ Here you have let the thought consume you and control the next thought, and the next, and the next, while your breathing has become shallower and you get more in a mess over it.

another way is when the thought comes up "he alaways gets on my nerves" so you consciously counter this with a positive thought. "he has some nice moments, he did buy me lunch four months ago, he did say to have a good weekend, two weeks ago, He is probably just doing the best he knows how so I cannot fault him for that, I should have some compassion, I am thankfull that I have a job" etc... Here you try to replace a negative thought with a positive one, pantanjali talks about this

now according to the swami the third way is how we transcend our karma. the thought comes up "he always gets on my nerves" you recognize this thought and just let the thought be there, you can turn your focus to your breathing and let the thought pass, supposedly this is the way to transcending karma. The thought comes up and we do not judge it as good or bad, we just breath and let it pass. we are in a state of witness with the thought rather then active communication with it.

Now when a good thought comes up? I am not so worried about transending those thoughts

more then thoughts

Neil


Mirjana2010-07-04 15:32:07 +0000 #2
YouTube - Sam Skara (2/2): Five Kleshas of Yoga Sutras Meditation: Video From YouTube:(link)


"Curiosity, or love of the knowledge of causes, draws a man from consideration of the effect to seek the cause; and again, the cause of that cause, till of necessity he must come to this thought at last, that there is some cause, whereof there is no former cause, but is eternal, which - men call God."

-Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679)

Just some more thoughts
Hubert2010-07-04 15:37:52 +0000 #3
The parents you are born, how they are, the social environment, it's challenges, people we meet and have significant influence on us, the weaknesses and strenghts we posess, all the crysis, illnesses are part of our karma.

Karma is not juts thoughts, and samskaras. It can be explained that way, yes, it can be seen that way, yes, but that's just one point of view, what, even if true as I beleive it is, cannot clearly show the whole picture. Karma is the very life we live.

A few important thoughts here:

Karma does not work on the ground of cause and effect alone.That would be a blindly deterministic view, one, I admit so fitting in that often not recognized materialist world view what lurks in the backs of our minds.

Karma works on the ground of continual challenges, for our personal growth. If a person old enough to have significant life expereince looks back on his/her life, often will realize that there have been situations, happenings, expereinces, what led to his/her current state, and they are so beautifully crafted, that no other outcome would have been possible, as if one was led to the present by some hidden director. This is when the thought of fate, karma dawns on us. We realize that a much higher intelligence has guided our steps, so we can become like we are now.

Several other thoughts flow from this.

First, that somehow, it all supposed to happen the way it did, no matter how unjust or hard it has been. Like a man, who lost his parents and their support in his/her early life, and when decades later looks back on his/her life, he/she realizes that the strenght, confidence, and self reliance he/she posesses now would have been impossible to reach, if things went on differently. Sooner or later one will come to the thought that this guidance is not an outer one, but something so deeply connected with us, that it really cannot be separated from our very being. This guide is the Self, what bears the results of all former incarnations, and it brings a wonderfully crafted plan to direct our life accordingly.

Knowing your past lives is really nothing but knowing yourself beyond the portal of the birth of this incarnation, and beyond the portal of your former death.

Karma, fate is not blind ... we are blind to it, and with a purpose. If one would know in advance what trials one must face to develop certain traits, than one, still lacking those very traits, would feel totally unable, lost, and would do anything to avoid the coming expereince.

Our fate is part of the world's fate. It all has a purpose, and we have a great destiny. Some parts of our karma will never be revealed because of the reason I said above ... a fateless person is a dead person, one not needing any earthly expereince, a person who never comes back down here, unless from some higher, selfless reason.

There is much more to this, of course, but there is also a danger of knowing too much of these things, before we have the strenght to bear it. The often mentioned guardian of the treshold is simply facing our fate, karma, in it's nakedness. In fact, there are two guardians ... take these as figures of speech, as the images might vary depending on culture or individual expereinces ... the first "guardian" is facing our selves as we are now, with all the weakness, selfishness, limitedness, misery, and what all that has meant for the world, for other people ... something so terryfiing that it requires tremendous presence of spirit, faith in ourselves, and honesty ... no wonder we do not meet this "guardian" until we are able to bear it's sight ... as soon as it tyries to surface from the subconscious we run for some outer expoerience, some sensorial comfort, or if we can't do that, we run for manras, prayers, images, meditation,where we can expereince our better selves, usually in form of our limited, cherished ego of who we would like to think we are.

The second guardian is not related to our karma, or life, but to the world's karma. It is a figure of incrediblke radiance, light, love, peace, and compassion. It it's light, our lackings are just more obvious, but the very presence fills us with hope, love, and a promis that everything will be allright. This is what we could have become, we should become, we must be able to purify ourselves, but not just that, we need to grow to be able to bear this wonderful presence ... let just call it Higher Self, now on this forum, even if that;s misleading as this is the Cosmig Self, Cosmic Ego, Christ consciousness, Atman, the spirit man we will become. (Eventualy, through many, many incarnations, in various environments, the more in the future, the more less we can picture) This is happening for everyone. There is anormal course of evolution, and there are some who go through an accelerated growth (not normal, and one more challenging ... think of a soldier, what hardships he/she must endure to become worthy of defending the country ... the soldiers of God go through much harder training so they can help building and defending The Kingdom of God - what is a state very far in the future where a separation of those who are spiritual, from those who could not find the way to grow will happen. The former will be ready to live in the world of angels (devas) , the latter will be still bound to the physical realm , only that the physical realm will have grown to a much denser one than the presnt one, and in it the sufferings of what we know are part of a physical expereince, will become much greater. That will be a hell in the fullest meaning of the world. Somewhere far in the future counted in the time of the physical world... and yet close, as the incarnations take greater leaps than we usually think.

PS. To justwannabe

The only limits in realizing and understanding karma are our own. In karma there is not only divine justice, but also divine grace. It is not mechanical, but living. It is not eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, because it makes you see the eye you harmed as your own, and it will not require to give your own eye in return, it will just show you your deed from the perspective of the suffering part, and you are the very one who will accept that you will make up for it, in a way that usually passes our normal level of undertsanding.
justwannabe2010-07-04 16:13:12 +0000 #4
Hubert,

For me I am just trying to use the most basic simple method I can to delete uneeded thoughts. For much of my life I have thought way too much, I guess that is part of my karma.

I have tried to understand so much that it has left my head spinning. So now my goal in life is to become stupid

why are we here, I dont know, what is my karma, I dont know, what happened in past lives I dont know etc...

Why do we need all the theory, philosophies, etc... For the most part I am throwing as much out the window as I can. I am trying to return to basics in every aspect of my life.

I have asked many questions in this life, in yoga class I am known as the one with questions. There is a time and a place for questions I guess, if I had not asked so many I would not be who I am. But now I am to the point where forest Gump is my hero, I do not idol worship but if I did it would be him.

in the sutras patanjalia talks about the mind, he says something to the extent of this "the mind can be controlled though willpower or through the breath" if we reach a certain state we go beyond karma, I am using breath as my means to attain that state so then I make the connection of breath to karma. For me the main karma I am concerned with is mental karma, not situational or physical, etc....

as forest once said "I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is"

May I be blessed enough to become as dumb as him

with love my brother

Neil
Mirjana2010-07-04 16:51:47 +0000 #5
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubert



We realize that a much higher intelligence has guided our steps, so we can become like we are now.

Karma is an universal law of justice and it works self regulative to protect entirety. Individual is not important. But we need at the beginning to isolate ourselves as an individual from the Universe to start feel our “I”. We need egoism that creates a wish, which evokes acting and experiences through which we start to develop. When we start to act consciously and we start to take the responsibilities for our lives, we can start to change our destiny.

Until we realize that everything what is temporary does not satisfy and fulfil and what does satisfy is only what is eternal. Than the wish of taking disappears and a strong need to give back everything what we got from people, world and nature, appears. That is how the balance is maintained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubert



There is anormal course of evolution, and there are some who go through an accelerated growth (not normal, and one more challenging ... think of a soldier, what hardships he/she must endure to become worthy of defending the country ... the soldiers of God go through much harder training so they can help building and defending The Kingdom of God - what is a state very far in the future where a separation of those who are spiritual, from those who could not find the way to grow will happen. The former will be ready to live in the world of angels (devas) , the latter will be still bound to the physical realm , only that the physical realm will have grown to a much denser one than the presnt one, and in it the sufferings of what we know are part of a physical expereince, will become much greater. That will be a hell in the fullest meaning of the world. Somewhere far in the future counted in the time of the physical world... and yet close, as the incarnations take greater leaps than we usually think.

May I ask where this understanding is coming from?
Hubert2010-07-04 16:55:07 +0000 #6
This comes from the antrhoposophy of Rudolf Steiner, a greatly overlooked, misunderstood philosopher, seer, teacher of the turn of the XX century. It is easy to form a false opinion upon him, yet I still have to read or learn from a person so knowledgable, reasonable and just. For yogis I'd reccomend the book Knowledge of Higher worlds and it's attainment: wn.rsarchive.org/Boo...ish/GA010_index.html , what sheds light on the importance of yama and niyama and their role in froming, purifying, and awakening of the dormant "petals" of chakras.
Hubert2010-07-04 18:13:05 +0000 #7
Quote:

Originally Posted by justwannabe



So now my goal in life is to become stupid why are we here, I dont know, what is my karma, I dont know, what happened in past lives I dont know etc... Why do we need all the theory, philosophies, etc... Neil

You say, your life is a theory ? Aren't you interested who you are ?

What you say, is just escapism. Complacency in that pleasant state of thoughtlessness, when breathing stops. But I tell you, if someone comes while you are in that state, and slaps you on your face, it goes away pretty quickly. If you can preserve your calm, and not return the slap, you are merely social. But when you not only control yourself, but do not get angared at all, than I say, you really must have something of worth.

I say you are just toying. So, here is the slap. How do you feel ?

PS. A mans worth is only shown in times of trouble. I have been in trouble just enough to know my real worth. What is yours ?

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