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Falling into Darkness

skhandelwal2010-07-04 23:09:39 +0000 #1
As far as I know, Yoga is a path to salvation...even for Gyana Yogi. Therefore, perhaps, this might be a good place to post the questions I seem to be helpless on.

1. Our desires begins from the pleasure we obtain through the senses. But then how is it that when we win, we tend to become nondualistic (gain control over our body...), and when we lose(we fight ourself...desire vs conciousness)?

2. Can we interact w/ other? Whatever we do, we are selfishly doing it for ourselves. Through our senses, we perceive who we are. Which is why we discriminate, naturally, we are a point of view. Ex. aim of life: gaining self-respect.

Proof: we love other for how we perceive them...which is why we resist change...we never really see their soul...we see what we want to see.

3. Define meaningless acts or ideas...ex. fearing even after knowing that fearlessness is the path to success.(unability to act)

4. According to physics; time, motion, etc. is relative. It is a matter of point of reference. If this is the truth then isn't it us trying to categorize the universe from our POV? If that is true, then what does concepts such as emptiness and existence mean?


Hubert2010-07-04 23:18:15 +0000 #2

Originally Posted by skhandelwal

1. Our desires begins from the pleasure we obtain through the senses.

But then how is it that when we win, we tend to become nondualistic (gain control over our body...), and when we lose(we fight ourself...desire vs conciousness)?

Not gratifying the senses does not result liberation, otherwise all people in prison, or blind, or having other sensorial disfunction would be saints. Not wanting to gratify the senses is freedom. So apparently, negation of desire does not help, but not desiring does. Than you are free. But how to arrive here ? Because this way, I said that you can be free only when you are free.

We have lots of desires. But we also have a lot of good things in us. The work consists of making the right choices. Through the right choices, we create new habits, better ones, and the old ones will slowly fade away. To make the right choices, we need the examples of others who went before. We need knowledge. Knowledge and discernment will give you the strenght to make the right choice. Mental knowledge is volatile, so it must be renewed very often. This is also work. This must be done until man arrives to the point of initiation, when the mysteries of higher worlds are revealed. This requires an amount of work to be done on the whole being, moral and spiritual. Certain traits like calm, respect to all, lack of criticism, optimism and faith in good must become natural. Also there are exercises to be made. In fact, the use of senses should not be denied, because how can we learn about the world and others without them, until we are not initiated to see with the eyes of the spirit ? These eyes, are in fact developed by transcending the senses. How is this done ? Through seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling the object we are interested in, reaping the pleasure of the sense AND withholding a bit from further pleasure and letting the object resonate in us. In fact, we always should listen after using our senses, leaving time for the undeveloped, not physical ones to work too, and by it, let them become stronger.

In short: liberation comes through knowledge, knowledge requires the use of senses, until they are transcended by higher senses, until those are also transcended and finally we become the knowledge. This is not an easy task. It requires lots of lives usually.

So in this life if one aquires for example the trait of calm under any circumstances, it is already a great feat. And we are not all the same. Some of us came far, and some of us are just starting, and the difference is not usually obvious.
Pandara2010-07-04 23:29:51 +0000 #3

First of all, please note that yoga is not a religion and as such there is no salvation in yoga. Yoga is a discipline of mind, body and soul and is ultimately designed to bring you to a path of knowledge (and here I don't refer just to intellectual knowledge, but also spiritual, emotional knowledge) and in knowledge there is the promise of freedom to the one who has persisted.

We need our senses to make "sense" of the world around us and without our senses we would not be able to gain certain knowledge, to understand and discern between all the opposites in our lives. The danger in our senses are the fact that we can become so attached (desire) to what we experience that we start to confuse the lesson with the desire and focus all our attention on the desire instead on the message behind it.

Otherwise I think Hubert has given you as much as you need for now to take you further.
skhandelwal2010-07-04 23:43:19 +0000 #4
Hubert...I actually took a different approach. According to Neti(Vedanta philosophy) and Buddhism, true knowledge lies within awareness, gaining forgettable knowledge just serves as a temporary motivation for one to achieve that peak. Therefore, I just choose vipassana(form of meditation) and set by myself to get bored...slowly...all the answers to my questions started becoming common sense. So, instead of trying, I gave up, from where all the strenght sparked.

Pandara...thats all yoga is....hinduism. It is devided into three main parts. Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga, and Gyana Yoga. Later, more and more people came up w/ more and more variations such as kundalini, etc. What you are referring to is a branch of yoga called hatha...based on the belief that w/ perfect body, comes nirvana.

Yoga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
Hubert2010-07-04 23:51:46 +0000 #5
I don't beleive emptyness of mind is the answer. The answer is what this emptyness allows to manifest.

I don't beleive meditation is the only answer. I think right life and right actions are also answers.

I think trying to liberate yourself takes you to a place where once you are done, you cannot accept it without trying to help others to do the same.

I beleive in a divine plan, and evolution, I beleive that every little action of my life counts.

For me yoga is a tool, but one undivideabley linked to a spiritual path, and I also think religions are spiritual paths also. Because of these I am an omnivore concerning religions, and I am not lost in the differences but strenghtened by the common truth.

I am aware that yoga and it's philosophy brings a lot of negation. This is important to be understood. The ancient hindu were different than we are today. They had a recent memory of the spiritual world, so the material envelope, physicality with it's ephemerity was perceived as maya, illusion, regarding to the reality and immortal beings of the spiritual worlds. But today we are not like them. In fact the powerful sense of individuality what we have today, is due to identification with this physical shell. This has a reason and it is not alltogheter bad. We must keep our individuality but learn to use it in accordance with the divine plan. The bad thing is that we no longer see the spiritual forces because all our anergies are directed outwards through the senses, and so we are doomed to get buried more and more in matter unless ... (in fact we did recieve this individuality too soon, our consciousness was immersed in matter too soon, by some beings higher than us who were seeking their own evolution - presented as the serpent and Eve in the Bible-)

There is an evolution of human beings. Liberation, and attaining godlyhood is only for those who are very advanced. Do not be fooled thinking you can avoid your fate by meditation and thinking nothing. This might be false renunciation. Mental games are not enough to face the forces of the universe.

Initiation takes you trough the heavens. There are higher beings than us. We must not just rise up above humanity but also above gods (devas). What do you think siddhis are ? These are godly powers. Why do you think Buddha and yogis say this must also be passed ? There is no instant jump from human level to liberation, or moksha. There is a journey with several stops.
skhandelwal2010-07-04 23:59:09 +0000 #6
I believe you are a motivated Karma Yogi...and I am Gyana Yogi.
Hubert2010-07-05 00:18:24 +0000 #7
I respect the strenght of reason in people like you.

Good luck in your endeavour !



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